A few things to point out...

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:15 am

I just wanted to make sure you guys were aware of certain factors that my effect OCs activity and community.

I am not trying to tell anyone what to do or am I nagging about progress. I just want to make Devs aware of such problems.

None of this includes game-technecal requests or problems.

Examples are:

Wiki needs better server and should be on our main domain(dev.obsidianconflict.net).
Solution: Copy SQL database to a reliable server and add a sub-domain to the current InterNetWire account.

We have multiple dead links to the site, as we updated to (.net) there are (.de) and (.com) domain names that are now dead.
Solution: Purchase "obsidianconflict.com" and "obsidianconflict.de" then have them redirect to our current domain.

Devs seem secretive, not openly allowing people to know what they are working on. I see no point for this, if the Devs show they are active and what they are doing, then people will see that the mod is still being worked on and what they can hope to see in the near future feature-wise.
Solution: Encourage Devs to show what they are working on and maybe make a Dev Blog, so the community can see and appreciate what is being done.

Lack Staff or staff activity, to keep people in line. We don't want flame wars to start and no-one to stop it. Seeing staff more active should also be a deterrent to those that would brake the rules.
Solution: Find some people that could commit to being online at least daily to be staff. Though when choosing staff, one needs to be careful. You want someone mature and not emotionally driven, as well as active.

Lack of Advertising, we need to be known to grow. The more people knowing about the mod will make sure the community stays active.
Other advantages include people that might even be able to help development-wise.
Solution: Without looking like spammers, go to any forum relevant to Half-life 2 or Source Modding and post a topic showing some features and a link back to here. Make sure to also keep that topic alive. You can also keep the Moddb and other pages up to date and active

There are other things, but this is all I feel like writing at the moment.

MOXron · Post by **MOXron** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:07 am

Sounds like some well thought out ideas. gjsdeath.

One thing i can say though. is that from my experience (generally) there seem to be atleast 1 staff member on everyday.

Ny · Post by Ny » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:47 am

**WALL OF TEXT WARNING**

While it is nice to give out ideas like this it also treads thin ice because the ideas are closer to being directives rather than actual ideas and suggestions.

The wiki while it has been down for a while, is backed up and being sorted by Neico.

From what I understand the dead domains can't be purchased (Don't quote me fully on this) and if thats the case redirctions can't be put in place to get sttraggling non-members to come to the correct place. The best thing the team can do here is make sure sites like moddb and fps bannana are up to date and hope for the best.

Devs and online stuff: Secrets help keep the community close and wanting more. Also it helps stop leaks of greats to competitors (e.g. Synergy). I would compared this to the tatics of the Black Mesa Mod devs. You love the mod and the devs rarely post but it's the forum that keeps the idea of the mod alive.
As for online staff, I dont think it's needed fully. Yes the topics do go off sometimes but these get controlled pretty easily by Fox. Dont forget that most of the devs visit the site more often than you think.

Advertising has it's own aspects but I think the Devs don't have to be the people who do this otherwise whats the point in having a community if they don't spread the word themselves?

fug's Obsidian clips · Post by **fug4life** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:51 am

The secrecy thing I don't think is an issue, There's enough of the rest of us feeding regular content into the mod, to keep things from being stale between releases.
The Devs do drop the odd screen shot here and there or hint at forthcoming features. And they certainly point out if a bug is being fixed or worked on. I respect them for not revealing their hand and holding back for the surprises come release day.

You can gather a lot of info of what's being worked on from just hunting around the forums regularly.

Steam · Post by **Neico** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:53 pm

1. YaS might have a server very soon, if not will i put the backup that is stored on Ecchi-RO online and link the domain to it...

2. you can get the domains back very easly... if you have the right amount of money (the older the domain the more the costs to get it back)

3. can't say about the others, but for me i didn't do anything on oc since october or so, too much stress with school and getting a new server etc. (it's not like that i don't want to show something, i simply have nothing to show, remember that i had a blog on my site where i will post new stuff i'm working on

)

4. i don't get it...

5. normally the person that is in charge of the project should go and put some adverts on different sites, in this case W0rf0x (everyone can in fact but it just looks better) he also recieved a pretty big list of sites to advert to (http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/News_Site_List) feel free to help with it

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:34 pm

Thanks for the replies, I think you guys addressed everything.

I am not trying to boss anyone around, just showing my concern.

shiftey · Post by **shiftey** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:06 am

I don't see there being a problem with keeping trusted community members who are contributing content in the loop.

It was very frustrating for me when I was trying to get information on whether a feature I needed for my map would be in 1.35 and the response I got was "Sorry I can't tell you anything because you aren't on the team."

I even applied for the team just so I wouldn't have to deal with that shit. Still haven't heard anything...

Thought about switching to greenland just to be a spiteful prick but that's not my character.

fug's Obsidian clips · Post by **fug4life** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:49 am

I still feel relying on the devs to code in something for you, is a bad approach. Sure no harm in asking, and if you did get that answer, to me it sounds like they just didn't know at the time of asking whether what you want is possible or not. Alas those sort of answers can't be given until they have experimented with the code.

I'm sorry its just you sounds like your a little bitter still.

I hope you get on the team, your work seems up to scratch, but bare in mind this mod was always the community provides most of the maps. I only got beta access because I released a map for the mod (Way Back).
Thats how it used to be, Tysn broke through the mould with an impressive application, though his application came when actually the team were after modelers. As it happens Tysn proved to be a worthy asset and a map making production line. I thought recently about asking if I could join simply cause I've never asked before, but when I evaluate my own work, I just feel im probably not of the high calibre req.

As for joining GL, thats like shooting your self in the foot. Its too limited, especially hammer wise.

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:44 pm

Well, you have to understand Fug, Shifty can't code stuff, it's in C++, plus even if he knew how, he can't without the source code.

Though once I become a Dev, one of the first things I would like to do is add an output to the lives manager for Shifty. I would like to do something for him as he helped me with mapping.

fug's Obsidian clips · Post by **fug4life** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:45 pm

No disrespect but thats all IF & WHEN.

It's not good to hold out on those sort of promises, it just creates a bottle neck of false hope. Where Shiftey could turn his attention to nsomething more immediate, rather than him getting all frustrated.

Like Shiftey, I wish both of you the best of luck, but I can't help but feel both of you are lacking substance. Both of you show the enthusiasm and will. But I think you need to take a step back and see that you both haven't produced anything into a final state.

Personally I hope you turn out to be a shit hot coder that makes it on to the team.

Same goes for Shiftey, I hope he pumps out the maps that his screenshots portray (again shit hot).

fug's Obsidian clips · Post by **fug4life** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:00 pm

P.s. I'm sorry if I sound a little harsh, You have to bare in mind things take time.

Personally I think Zteer would be a great coder, only because I've seen his coding work (He made the modify generator program). Only problem is there is a huge language barrier.

And don't get me wrong I think all the ideas concerning Lives mode are valid, but you have to realise the team must prioritise.

Steam · Post by **Shana** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:19 pm

Well here's my response to this.

- Yes i agree. I still got plenty of space on this webspace as all i'm hosting on it is the oc site, forums, keyfox blog and some files and pictures.

- Not going to buy those domains, sorry. Most people know the current address and so do most major modding related sites. I rather try to get in contact with those having the old address to change it instead of buying old unneeded domains just to create a redirect for those people lagging behind.
Though if anyone feels like buying those domains for us, sure, go right ahead.

- A while ago i kinda flooded the wip section with screenshots of my upcoming maps (e.g. broken escape2). Until someone told me i'm giving away all the surprise by posting so many screenshots. And it was kinda true, i posted screenshots of almost every area of my map. Tysn has been going with this "Post a single mysterious screenshot every once in a while" since the beginning. And it seems like the best to do, i'm doing the same since a while now.
On a related note, the map changed quite a lot since then, so most of the areas i posted look completely different now as i wasn't happy with them. I'm kinda redesigning the whole map.

And there just isn't anything worth showing on the coding side right now. Neico just isn't experienced enough yet nor does he have the time to dust off stuff as quickly and good as Hyper and Skidz did. When there's something interesting to show you guys, we do it. (Remember when i posted the multiple dynamic lights screenshots.)

- We don't really need more moderators. Forum isn't that active so our 4 people with moderator access (Me, Keychain, Tysn and Neico) are enough to keep this clean.

- We already are advertising on modding sites more than Skidz and Hyper did. Not blaming them or something for not doing it, since it can actually be a quite annoying job when you're already busy with other stuff.
The best time to advertise is around the release of a new version, which is also a kinda hectic time for the devs. I always make sure to at least make a news post on moddb and the steamgroup and after that i'm not really in the mood to write more posts for other sites. Besides, after posting on moddb, a lot of other news site are catching up to spread the word, like hlportal, they always seem to catch up pretty quick.

I wouldn't mind community members advertising for us on different sites, as long as its properly written and stuff. maybe get in contact with me before you post so i can check what you have written first.

And to Shiftey, I don't know if we should get you on the team yet. Sure, your work looks amazing and it seems like you're actually going to finish a map this time. But this seems to be because you need to finish it for some school project, therefore it has a petty high priority and NEEDS to be done. It's just that i'm not sure if you're going to do the same for future projects which are not meant for school projects.
And TBH, your last line makes me not wanna add you to the team. You said you're not like that, but yet you still feel the need to post something like that, which seems like a nice "frak you" to me.
And you know switching to them would only make it worse, for obvious reasons.

fug's Obsidian clips · Post by **fug4life** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:28 pm

Without kissing arse, I think that was well said.^

shiftey · Post by **shiftey** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:07 pm

First of all you guys have it all wrong. As much as I'd like somebody to code something for me personally, that wasn't the issue. I merely wanted to know if a feature I was told was fixed/implemented into 1.35 was really going to be there. By knowing this I could develop my map accordingly.

But after talking to almost every team member individually I started getting a little pissed off.

Also, the priority has nothing to do with my school project. In fact, I used the school project as an excuse to sit at my computer for large quantities of time without feeling like too much of a nerd. I have no expectations for it to be done in time for the project but I was hoping by stressing that maybe somebody would get their ass in gear to help me out.

The Greenland line wasn't meant as a frak you. If i really felt I needed to say that I would send you a pm. However, I don't take the internet that seriously so you could never get me upset enough to resolve to that. Maybe it was more of a warning, I'm not sure. If "you people" keep on fraking up relations with contributing community members eventually they'll all go somewhere else.

It's not like I'm the only one having this problem. Some contributors get banned for petty bs and don't forget you pretty much alienated a whole server modding team a few weeks ago.

Once again, this isn't directed at one single person. Bits and pieces regarding different members of the "team". As far as being on the team....I don't really care much. I only want to be included if it would help me develop my maps faster and better.

fug's Obsidian clips · Post by **fug4life** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:20 pm

Fair enough.

Only thing I will say is, I don't believe anyone has been alienated. This forum though it has few regulars is way more helpful than many other forums.

We should all take a step back and try be a bit more constructive.